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Author Topic: on the feeding of trolls...  (Read 12556 times)

Darth Mandarb

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on the feeding of trolls...
« on: 19 Apr 2011, 23:05 »
Given certain recent events (I'll be polite and not point fingers) I felt the need to post my feelings on the feeding of trolls.  These aren't new feelings.  Just feelings that the [previously mentioned] recent events have sparked my desire to post about it.

It goes something like this;

A troll is a troll is a troll is a troll.  A troll craves only one thing; continued attention no matter the cost. Trolls, in my opinion, add nothing useful to a web-community.  They aren't entertaining, they aren't 'occasional fun', they are nothing but useless and only take away from the communities over-all 'vibe'.

YOU CANNOT HEAL A TROLL.

YOU CANNOT CURE A TROLL.

YOU CANNOT HELP A TROLL.

YOU.CAN.NOT.

If you try to help, criticize, insult, enlighten, etc (anything) you only accomplish feeding the troll.

The methods people seem to need to try:

Helpful Advice:
No matter how logical and/or helpful your advice might be (attitude adjustments, spell-checking, etc) you aren't going to enlighten or change them, you only feed the troll.  It doesn't matter how politely you phrase it, you're feeding the troll.

Insults:
No matter how witty, rude, clever and/or warranted your insults might be you only accomplish feeding the troll.  A troll craves attention and this is the worst kind of troll food.  It's the candy/junk food of troll food.

Noble Defender:
No matter how much you 'defend' them to the others coming down on them, you are not going to make them feel 'accepted' and change their behavior you are only fueling the fire and thus, feeding the troll.

The Informer:
When you try to inform everybody else in the thread that they are only feeding the troll... you feed the troll (thus why I posted this as a separate topic in a vain (IE useless) attempt to stem the tide of trolldom).

There is only one way to make a troll go away;
DON'T FEED THE TROLL (don't reply to the thread)

It is the only way to make the troll go away. 

I will never understand why worthy topics/threads get only 1 page of replies before dying yet people perpetuate a troll thread with page after page of troll-food.  My current theory is that some [maybe most?] people just don't think of something as "trolling" and just take the bait unwittingly.

Now ... I didn't post this just to be a holier than though prick (surprise!). 

I'm actually curious what others' opinions were on the feeding of trolls and why, despite most peoples' hatred of trolls, they continue to take the bait and the cycle repeats itself over and over and over and over...

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #1 on: 19 Apr 2011, 23:16 »
I don't believe in the existence of trolls. In reality they are all beautiful golden-haired faeries waiting to be rescued through the endless elongation of their threads.

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #2 on: 19 Apr 2011, 23:23 »
Maybe...

A) They or we or whoever don't think the person in question is a troll as you define it.
B) They/We disagree that posters acting in this way are not entertaining.
C) How many trolls have actually gone to the effort of making several (crappy) AGS games, and inspired a series of OK-to-hilarious games? That should earn our anonymous maybe-troll some slack, surely?
D) Sometimes people who start out writing barely-legible nonsense are cured, and turn into relatively reasonable posters.

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #3 on: 19 Apr 2011, 23:47 »
Well I know that trolls are supposed to be a threat for the community and all.
But lets consider two things:
Theres just one guy here who is said to be a troll, an opinion that I don't share and that I think is really insulting and unfair towards someone whos just a little different. Especially if its someone whos obviously trying really hard and has made some good progress.
Seeking attention does not automatically make you a troll. Its probably just a typical behaviour of a 14-16 years old.

Secondly. Damn, these threads are entertaining. I really enjoy reading them and the absurdly hilarious situations. Its not like the whole board's been flooded. Is just a few threads.

So my opinion here is: Let's not make this a which hunt. Just relax and dont take everything so seriously.

Ali

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #4 on: 20 Apr 2011, 00:10 »
I agree with the other responses. This ol' internet is home to many people who want to start fights, insult people or force their views on others.

There's not a lot of that around here, so I think the community vibe is pretty good.


Darth Mandarb

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #5 on: 20 Apr 2011, 00:26 »
A) They or we or whoever don't think the person in question is a troll as you define it.
B) They/We disagree that posters acting in this way are not entertaining.
C) How many trolls have actually gone to the effort of making several (crappy) AGS games, and inspired a series of OK-to-hilarious games? That should earn our anonymous maybe-troll some slack, surely?
D) Sometimes people who start out writing barely-legible nonsense are cured, and turn into relatively reasonable posters.
A) Obviously! This is why I was expressing my opinion on the matter (never claimed to determine others' opinions, that's why I asked for them) :)
B) see answer A
C) If a troll invented the cure for cancer, but still acts the troll, I wouldn't ignore the trollish behavior just because of a great deed.
D) Opinion v Opinion on this matter, one isn't better (or more right) than the other

Theres just one guy here who is said to be a troll, an opinion that I don't share and that I think is really insulting and unfair towards someone whos just a little different. Especially if its someone whos obviously trying really hard and has made some good progress.
Seeking attention does not automatically make you a troll. Its probably just a typical behaviour of a 14-16 years old.

Secondly. Damn, these threads are entertaining. I really enjoy reading them and the absurdly hilarious situations. Its not like the whole board's been flooded. Is just a few threads.

So my opinion here is: Let's not make this a which hunt. Just relax and dont take everything so seriously.
Again though it's "opinion v opinion" ... I mean if a person has [several] threads where multiple posts straight-up call them a troll, or exhibit the anti-troll behavior(s) I mentioned in my first post, doesn't that mean that there is at least some who feel a troll is amongst us?

I wasn't starting a witch hunt and am not taking anything "so seriously" here ... recent events, which I consider trolling (as do many others), caused me to put to words some questions I've had for quite some time.

I agree with the other responses. This ol' internet is home to many people who want to start fights, insult people or force their views on others.

There's not a lot of that around here, so I think the community vibe is pretty good.

I do hope that wasn't directed at me?  I wasn't starting a fight or insulting anybody and certainly wasn't forcing my opinion on others ... I was just expressing my opinions which is, I think, the point of a discussion in the gen-gen :(

I wasn't specifically meaning the AGS boards either (this isn't the only place I have an account on a forums).  There is actually a surprising lack of trolls around these parts (and I agree with Ali the over-all vibe is pretty decent or I'd not be here after nearly 8 years) which is probably why the occasional troll stands out more (to me).

I would kindly and humbly ask that this thread not be turned into another crusade for the righteous in defense of a perceived slight and instead focus on the original intent of expressing opinions on trolling in general.

Ali

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #6 on: 20 Apr 2011, 00:31 »
I agree with the other responses. This ol' internet is home to many people who want to start fights, insult people or force their views on others.

There's not a lot of that around here, so I think the community vibe is pretty good.

I do hope that wasn't directed at me?

No, no not at all!

I just meant that the 'trolling' in question is pretty civilised by contrast with other examples.

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #7 on: 20 Apr 2011, 02:08 »
I think the case for trollish behaviour is strong, yet the case for motivated and developing member is probably stronger.  I agree with Mode7 that progress is being made -if slowly.  So live and let live.

If you find the Troll or the Feeders annoying, then don't read the threads (I mostly don't).

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #8 on: 20 Apr 2011, 02:26 »
I think what makes a troll a troll is malice. Being too immature to realize one's own immaturity isn't malice in my book.

Darth Mandarb

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #9 on: 20 Apr 2011, 02:40 »
No, no not at all!
I just meant that the 'trolling' in question is pretty civilised by contrast with other examples.

Cheers, and I agree.  I'm a member at other places where troll-threads will go on for 50+ pages and I'm also at other places where it won't make it past 5 posts before moderators lock it (this is, obviously, my preference ;))

...yet the case for motivated and developing member is probably stronger.  I agree with Mode7 that progress is being made -if slowly...

I would quote myself again here "opinion v opinion" but I do see your point!

If you find the Troll or the Feeders annoying, then don't read the threads (I mostly don't).

I usually don't, but sometimes you inadvertently stumble into one and find yourself mired in the bog...

I think what makes a troll a troll is malice. Being too immature to realize one's own immaturity isn't malice in my book.

Interesting point ... so if you can tell the poster is only posting as they are because they are immature it becomes non-trolling to you?  I'm not being confrontational, just genuinely curious because to my mind troll-posting is troll-posting regardless of intent/cause.  I might extend a little lee-way in the case of immaturity but if the behavior continued endlessly at some point isn't enough enough?

Thanks for the opinions!  I like seeing this from other POVs!

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #10 on: 20 Apr 2011, 04:54 »
Cheers, and I agree.  I'm a member at other places where troll-threads will go on for 50+ pages and I'm also at other places where it won't make it past 5 posts before moderators lock it (this is, obviously, my preference ;))

The only problem I have with locking trolled threads is that the genuine contributors are then punished. However troll created threads should be locked asap. Why let others feed the troll when you want to starve it. I see trolls as mice looking for food, the acknowledgement of there existence (replying to their threads) is like leaving crumbs behind. You can either clean up the crumbs (lock the thread) or not leave any crumbs in the first place (dont acknowledge them).

I am concerned however that this may end up as tasty troll bait. It would be nice if we had an ignore list, that way troll posts are optionally blocked.

I don't think we have any real trolls here though. Just the occasional self centred kid that is convinced his awful ags creation is the next big thing. Immaturity or retardation? Who knows? I think we were all guilty of this when we where younger.
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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #11 on: 20 Apr 2011, 06:21 »
The biggest reason I personally dislike this potential Troll we are discussing, and in my opinion the strongest proof of his/her trolldom is this:

To join the AGS forums you have to answer a few simple questions. To me it seems that if you are considered a troll or even a potential troll, you have acted poorly, and thus have broken the rules you agreed to abide to when joining the forums. Being unable to understand these questions due to language barrier / young age / impatience is no defense! If you were able to correctly answer, then you MUST have understood the questions. Thus there should be some type of punishment / reprimand to bring such a person "back into line" with the forum rules.

I still remember the day I clicked the "Register" button and saw the questionnaire. I was so happy to see that a forum existed where the mere act of joining required you to acknowledge certain basic rules, and saw this as a level of guarantee that this was, as it has been to me, a clean and friendly place.
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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #12 on: 20 Apr 2011, 06:45 »
This is actually..well..this entire thing is funny to me. This time. It gets old after a while, and not every troll thread is lulzworthy, but there have been some very decent trolls around these parts that have settled down and become decent members of the AGSociety (which I now propose as the formal name of the "AGS community").

The name of Flukeblake comes to mind, and, to a much lesser extent, TerribleVenerealDisease (whose real screenname I can't remember at the moment!).

Trollz is trollz, but some of them are funny enough to be redeemable when the jokes get old. It can happen. 8)

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #13 on: 20 Apr 2011, 09:41 »
AGSociety (which I now propose as the formal name of the "AGS community").

Off Topic: The trouble with that name is it makes me think of David Cameron's 'Big Society'.

'Big AGSociety' would mean Chris Jones suddenly relinquishing centralised control of AGS development and allowing individual developers to contribute...

Wait a minute... open source? ... this is the first time a coalition policy has seemed worthwhile to me!

Phemar

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #14 on: 20 Apr 2011, 09:54 »
The name of Flukeblake comes to mind, and, to a much lesser extent, TerribleVenerealDisease (whose real screenname I can't remember at the moment!).

Was just about to point that out. Trolls sometimes can be reformed - I mean hell, I was 13 when I joined these forums and I remember the first year or so of my posts being extremely trollworthy haha. I just cringe when I think of it  :-X
I think Flukeblake was also pretty young when he was a 'troll', so in order for a troll to be reformed they probably just have to grow up a little.

Haha who remembers that guy who made that game about the sword who walked around? I remember him posting this car he drew in CL with square wheels :o A few others spring to mind as well, like LJUBI - The schizophrenic troll :D
« Last Edit: 20 Apr 2011, 10:04 by Phemar »

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #15 on: 20 Apr 2011, 10:29 »
Haha!!

http://agsociety.org/

I don't think anybody's mentioned that usage of the AGS acronym yet (here, among the discussions we've had about it).

"AGSociety" apparently also could be used to mean "AGricultural Society" (as in agsociety.com).

AGSociety.co.uk is available though! :=

Anyway, you're right there Phemar, to an extent. The problem is that not every troll can be reformed simply by growing up. Some trolls just won't quit. And I miss LJUBI. Both of them.

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #16 on: 20 Apr 2011, 10:32 »
« Last Edit: 20 Apr 2011, 10:45 by Saberteeth »

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #17 on: 20 Apr 2011, 10:46 »
I didn't really want to post here, However I am going to any ways. It's hard to see see people calling me a troll all the time. But like it was said before I have a lot of stamina so that's why I put up with it. Your opinion is that I am a troll. My opinion is that I am not a troll. You said it your self that you have been here 8 years & you are 35 years old. Keep in mind that I am 16 & I only been here 3 years. The only type of coding I knew was a little basic html. But I forgot it all after I came to AGS. With that said, If I am having trouble understanding Khris or monkey with AGS code it doesn't mean I am trolling or acting retarded, I just need a little bit more time to understand what they mean.

Also you make it seem like I don't listen to anyones advice. I only get up set when I am being picked on by adults who acted like kids(At times!)
If this was school some might call this bullying however I am not scared of a bully. Meaning that if your gonna toy with me and attack me by calling me a troll or keep blabbering about me building a portfolio to show SE then thats when I make a counter.

And on a side note, maybe it's just me, But I don't think trolls start out as a troll. It takes only 1 person to turn someone into a troll. But that's my opinion.

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #18 on: 20 Apr 2011, 10:51 »
If we are talking about who I think we are talking about, there have been plenty of guidance, instructions and feedback to direct the person in the right direction. If things do not start to change, I think there should be some kind of punishment or something. Temporary ban?

If we are to wait for every troll to just grow up, I think it would be too lenient. The issue of Trolls on the internet as a whole has grown to critical proportions in the last few years, we simply cannot expect things to work out like they have in the past.

Perhaps I am too strict when it comes to this, but personally I believe that strictness and punishment are the only ways to truly discourage this behavior in the long run. The basic forum rules on grammar, behavior and such should be followed, or at least a true and proper effort made, instead of making infinite excuses.
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Phemar

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Re: on the feeding of trolls...
« Reply #19 on: 20 Apr 2011, 11:06 »
I don't know Studio3, all a troll has to do in order to not be a troll is just follow the advice people give him. All everyone's trying to do is just help you, and I mean so far all I've seen is people giving you pretty good advice.
I only been here 3 years.

Not really "only 3 years", 3 years is quite a long time to be here. It takes less than 3 years to learn the how a community interacts with itself (in this case, AGS) and how to fit in.