Author Topic: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?  (Read 5634 times)

Armageddon

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What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« on: 21 Jun 2013, 01:14 »
It seems like we have a lot of them. But what adventure game can be our Citizen Kane?

Ascovel

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #1 on: 21 Jun 2013, 01:22 »
Snakes of Avalon obviously.

Ghost

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #2 on: 21 Jun 2013, 01:26 »
The second KG remake is a candidate.
AND Apprentice II.
And Chance Of The Dead.

In terms of sheer populaity outside the community, any Yathzee game.

Armageddon

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #3 on: 21 Jun 2013, 01:49 »
For thematic depth and tone I'd say Gemini Rue.

Babar

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #4 on: 21 Jun 2013, 02:04 »
I was never quite sure how Citizen Kane was the Citizen Kane of movies. Was it thematic depth and tone (is Citizen Kane unusually deep and toneful)? Popularity (is Citizen Kane all that popular among non-film students or film buffs)? From what I gather, I guess it has to do with filming techniques and camera angles and Mise en scene and other fancy words that the layman wouldn't consciously notice.

What would be the parallel to that in gaming? Programming? Interface? Atmosphere and aesthetic?

So...I dunno. Loom?
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Eric

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #5 on: 21 Jun 2013, 02:10 »
I was never quite sure how Citizen Kane was the Citizen Kane of movies.

In America, the reputation of Kane was fostered by Pauline Kael. You can read her two articles that shifted the historical and scholarly view of the film here.

Ascovel

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #6 on: 21 Jun 2013, 02:36 »
the reputation of Kane was fostered

I see what you did here.

Babar

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #7 on: 21 Jun 2013, 02:43 »
So basically, to be the Citizen Kane of something, the people in the know still have to be talking about it long after it is made?
In that case, for adventure games, I guess..
Zork? Monkey Island? :D
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Ascovel

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #8 on: 21 Jun 2013, 02:49 »
To be the Citizen Kane of something is to be the first widely recognized example of having fully used all the unique techniques of a particular medium to communicate something meaningful.

Like things about human condition and stuff.
« Last Edit: 21 Jun 2013, 03:43 by Ascovel »

Ghost

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #9 on: 21 Jun 2013, 03:35 »
To be the Citizen Kane of something is to be the first widely recognized example of having fully used all the unique techniques of a particular medium to communicate something meaningful.

In that case, Maniac Mansion maybe? It did set the bar for pretty much all mouse-operated adventure games that followed. It wasn't the first graphical, or mouse-driven adventure but it did really push the envelope back in its day.

Ascovel

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #10 on: 21 Jun 2013, 03:59 »
To be the Citizen Kane of something is to be the first widely recognized example of having fully used all the unique techniques of a particular medium to communicate something meaningful.

In that case, Maniac Mansion maybe? It did set the bar for pretty much all mouse-operated adventure games that followed. It wasn't the first graphical, or mouse-driven adventure but it did really push the envelope back in its day.

I'd agree Zork, Monkey Island, Maniac Mansion, King's Quest had the kind of influence on the adventure game genre that we'd want a Citizen Kane to have. However, none of those games did communicate anything particularly meaningful.

The importance of Kane: The Movie was not so much about pushing the envelope and inventing new techniques, as much as about using the most 'edgey' available techniques to tell a truly meaningful story, but in a quite a different way than mediums like literature or painting do. It's also not exactly about Kane being the absolute first, but about how universally it was recognized as showing what mature cinema can be. That's why people (i.e. journalists, indie developers) are currently trying to push the likes of Passage or Journey for the title of the Citizen Kane of gaming.

If you ask me, it's much too early to be looking for a Citizen Kane of adventure games or games in general. Perhaps a futile exercise altogether - it's mostly just people fighting for prestige.

Mikeg

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #11 on: 21 Jun 2013, 04:36 »
Beneath a Steel Sky, probably. I personally think it's the Broken Sword series, but meheh.

Ghost

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #12 on: 21 Jun 2013, 04:41 »
So we're looking for a technologically groundbreaking, but also meaningful game. I LIKE to think that something like this already exists but I can't put a name on it. The big old games were mostly there for entertainment and, as Ascovel mentioned, failed to be deep/meaningful.
It could be Myst- defenitely used the CD (a new medium at its time) to the fullest, and HAD a deep plot (though mostly behind the scenes- MYST THE MOVIE would be Alan Rickmann pulling levers and muttering that they do nothing).
I don't really like Myst though, so I didn't say that.

Mikeg

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #13 on: 21 Jun 2013, 04:49 »
Quote
MYST THE MOVIE would be Alan Rickmann pulling levers and muttering that they do nothing

That would be HILARIOUS. Also, you make a pretty good point. Myst wasn't that great, though, as you said. I saw the original boxed version (in mint condition) for like 2 quid in a charity shop and chose not to buy it. I guess that says it all.

Armageddon

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #14 on: 21 Jun 2013, 05:40 »
Citizen Kane was also the pinnacle of craft in terms of film making.

MiteWiseacreLives!

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #15 on: 21 Jun 2013, 06:28 »
Inherit the Earth and Eco Quest tried to have messages but kinda more childish .. Maybe theyre the Alladan of adventure games .. should nt post when tired

Surplusguy

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #16 on: 01 Jul 2013, 06:08 »



Personally I'd say Myst is the Star Wars of adventure games. It looks good, and creates a great world. But you get tired of it after a while, and the plot falls apart when you look at it closely.
« Last Edit: 01 Jul 2013, 21:14 by Surplusguy »
GHRPLTSM

abstauber

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #17 on: 02 Jul 2013, 14:23 »
If you count action adventures I vote for Shen-Mue on Dreamcast. Other than that I find that RPGs have more Citizen Kane moments than P&C adventures (e.g. Chrono Trigger).
 

Secret Fawful

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #18 on: 03 Jul 2013, 01:31 »
Grim Fandango

Devise the puzzles. Destroy the hero. Defeat the player.

Al_Ninio is an attention-seeking drama whore.

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Re: What is adventure games "Citizen Kane" moment?
« Reply #19 on: 03 Jul 2013, 04:21 »
Hmmmmmmm.  Citizen Kane: the apex of a genre AND a financial flop.  I guess Grim Fandango scores on both counts.