Author Topic: Background Workshop - Survey - updated v01  (Read 3896 times)

loominous

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Background Workshop - Survey - updated v01
« on: 31 May 2015, 09:33 »
So I thought I'd do a survey to get a sense of the general interest in another background workshop, and gather some opinions.

Since I haven't figured out how to do polling, we'll have to do it bb voting style, can copy and use the text below:

You're free to answer as many or few of these as you like, so just answer what you like, and comments are very welcome:

1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes/no
1b. I would probably only be interested/able to provide critique and not participate:

2a. The best time period for me would be: month/weeks/season/whatnot
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: days/weeks
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: hours a day/week

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it):
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it):
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings:
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces:

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area:
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area:

5a. Some general thoughts/suggestions:

Edit: 6a. I have most spare time during: weekend/weekdays
(In retrospect, formulating the survey as statements rather than questions feels rather awkward. Curious decision)
« Last Edit: 01 Jun 2015, 13:03 by loominous »
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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2015, 09:49 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes

2a. The best time period for me would be: month/weeks/season/whatnot no preference, it could start right now
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: days/weeks I'd prefer strict timeframes for different phases as in Andail's monster workshop. This gives some guidence and prevents protracting the workshop
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: hours a day/week up to 8 hours a week

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): receiving: yes, giving: I'm rather confident with perspective but not so much with other areas of composition
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): That's a field where I definitely have to improve a lot
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: somewhat
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: yes

5a. Some general thoughts/suggestions:
I think the monster workshop did pretty well, regarding organisation and pacing

Misj'

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2015, 10:56 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes
1b. I would probably only be interested/able to provide critique and not participate: I'd participate

2a. The best time period for me would be: starting in about two weeks...or sooner
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: don't care. As long as there's a beginning, middle and end (preferably with clear goals)
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: no idea. I always try make it work.

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): yes; though there's always room for improvement
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): yes; though there's always room for improvement
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: I rarely use thumbnails, I tend to do my (extremely) rough sketches on full size. I have done thumbnails but never found them to really work for me. I know people who swear by them and those who don't use them...in the end it's just about not getting lost in details early on (of course I do zoom out to reflect a layout, so I don't loose my global overview).
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: yes

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area: yes; when some subject comes up that I feel I have something to say about
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area: sure, but no area come to mind right away

5a. Some general thoughts/suggestions: In general I feel most comfortable drawing scenes that are outside (and preferably contain a lot of nature). Indoor scenes I tend to find a lot more difficult/constraining. I have done them, but I often feel a bit limited for some reason. I would love to do two backgrounds back-to-back within the same universe/fictional game (so in the same drawing style etc) where one is an outside scene and the other in indoor scene. Preferably the two would be directly connected (e.g. taking Daniel's piece in the mystic's Blitz as an example, one background would be the one he drew and the other would be inside the wagon).

6a. I have most spare time during: weekend/weekdays: on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Sunday I can often find time in the evening
« Last Edit: 01 Jun 2015, 14:10 by Misj' »

JudasFm

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2015, 12:41 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me:
Maybe. I'd like to see how one's run first to get some idea of how much commitment is required (not being fussy; my life is insanely busy right now!)
1b. I would probably only be interested/able to provide critique and not participate:
No

2a. The best time period for me would be:
Anytime after July 5; I have a big exam that day and right now all my time is devoted to studying

3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings:
No
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces:
Along the lines of "If I saw this background in a game, I'd think this but maybe it needs more of that", yes. However, I'm still too much of a beginner to feel comfortable offering critique on a purely technical level.

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area:
Not in art, no. The only thing I'd feel qualified to offer help with is fiction writing, but there's not much call for that here ;)
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area:
See 4a ;)
« Last Edit: 31 May 2015, 12:48 by JudasFm »

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #4 on: 31 May 2015, 13:39 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes No particular timing, though avoiding my vacation in July would be nice, since I probably will do zero in those 2 weeks.

2a. The best time period for me would be: Not during my vacation in July. ;)

2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: As long as there's a deadline, it's fine by me.

2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: Unfortunately I can't commit to "this many hours a week", since some days I'm more tired than others, some days I have less free time than others.

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings: I like usefull critic, being it positive or negative, only way to improve really. But bot comfortable giving it, since I don' consider my self as a having the right "know how" and don't wish to give the wrong critic.
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings: See above.

3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: Thumbnails? Errmm... No, didn't even knew someone did that for BGs...  :-[

3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: See 3a.

I'm skipping point 4, but if I can help in anyway, then I'm sure I will. Just love helping out! :-D
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Quintaros

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #5 on: 31 May 2015, 14:28 »

1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes


2a. The best time period for me would be: Anytime after June 14
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: Not sure.
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: Let's say 8-12 hours a week.

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): I understand the impact of value but have no clue how to achieve it.  I tend to work very closely with reference material and have difficulty deviating from its lighting regardless of how it may improve a composition.
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: yes.
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: I tend to shy away from providing critique when my own work is not especially remarkable.

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area:  If others thought there was something in my work that warranted a tutorial, I would oblige.
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area:  Sure.







Ykni

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #6 on: 31 May 2015, 19:16 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes, I would love to participate.

2a. The best time period for me would be: Before August or else after the end of September. During that period I'll be doing a lot of painting on my walls ><
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: Not sure, somewhere between a month or 6 weeks?
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: Not sure, there are times that I spend all my evenings painting.

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes, even though I'm not a pro I have had some training in traditional painting.
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: I have no idea what you mean by that. How would you use a thumbnail for you painting? So nope.
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: Yes and receiving critique as well :)

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area: I suppose I could do something about how to paint in Artrage if people would be interested in that. But other than that I don't think I'm accomplished enough yet to be teaching other people.
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area: I'm not sure how a background workshop would work, so I don't know what I could help your with. But I'm willing to help if I can.

5a. Some general thoughts/suggestions: Since I'm a complete noob when it comes to making game backgrounds I'm very interested in finding out what makes a good game background. What king of things I should pay attention to, like scaling issues, walking area's ...
A part of the workshop could be analyzing good or bad game backgrounds and discussing them on the forum.
One other thing I have been wondering about is what tools you guys use for making the backgrounds. I paint all my backgrounds in Artrage, but I have been wondering about what other tools to use and their strong and weak points.

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #7 on: 31 May 2015, 22:29 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes

2a. The best time period for me would be: ~month with progress over weeks
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: 3-4 weeks

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): I feel like that, but that doesn't mean anything, so receiving critique is good!
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): see above
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: nope, I never do that
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: sure

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area: dunno
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area: why not.

5a. Some general thoughts/suggestions: let's do this!

Daniel Thomas

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #8 on: 01 Jun 2015, 00:00 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes

2a. The best time period for me would be: no particular.
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: 1month, and weekly steps or something (just assuming it would have similar layout as last time, if not maybe shorter)
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: 2h a day

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: Yes
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: Yes

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area: Not sure if it's really necessary (if providing means create), there are already so many tutorials on the net so don't think I have more to say that hasn't already been said somewhere.
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area: C&C
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GreenBeams

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #9 on: 01 Jun 2015, 00:16 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: Yes
1b. I would probably only be interested/able to provide critique and not participate:No, i'll have a crack at the lot!

2a. The best time period for me would be: Any
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: About a month would be better i think. That way we could buld something but not lose focus
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: 8-10 hours a week

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: Yes
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: Yes

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area: I'm not sure i do anything stylistically different enough or well enough to warrant a tutorial but i'll be posting the most honest WIP's i can =D
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area: Any way i can

ThreeOhFour

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #10 on: 01 Jun 2015, 04:38 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: Yes
1b. I would probably only be interested/able to provide critique and not participate: No, interested in participating as well as giving feedback.

2a. The best time period for me would be: Any
2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: A month seems like a decent balance for everybody, and I think that'd work very well for a slower, more academic thing.
2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: 6-8 hours a week

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes
3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it): Yes
3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings: Yes
3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces: Yes

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area: I love discussing colour and composition, but frankly there are other members more skilled and knowledgeable in these areas than I am.
4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area: Always happy to share thoughts on stuff in terms of C&C

5a. Some general thoughts/suggestions: It always seems hard to stick to strict schedules in these things, and I am worried this one will run away as others have done in the past, I think it's very hard to rebuild momentum once you lose it. I go back and read through the old workshops (both the one loominous & Daniel (I think!) hosted and the ones Andail hosted) from time to time and find them very educational but also wish their momentum had been kept up a bit better. I'd be kind of wary of having extensions for this reason, although I realize for some people it's just not possible to spend that much time a week working on things.)

Jim Reed

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #11 on: 01 Jun 2015, 08:40 »
1a. I'd be interested in participating, provided the timing suits me: yes/no
Yes.

1b. I would probably only be interested/able to provide critique and not participate:
Depending on free time I could draw something.

2a. The best time period for me would be: month/weeks/season/whatnot
Doesn't matter.

2b. The ideal duration of the activity for me would be: days/weeks
1 month.

2c. On average, provided that the timing suits me, I would probably be able to spend this many hours peer week during it: hours a day/week
4h a week.

3a. I feel comfortable with the concept of composition when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it):
Yes.

3b. I feel comfortable with the concept of values when it comes to paintings (as in giving and receiving critique regarding it):
No.

3c. I feel comfortable working with thumbnails when it comes to paintings:
Yes.

3d. I feel comfortable giving critique in general regarding other's pieces:
Yes.

4a. I would be interested in providing a tutorial in some area:
Probably.

4b. I would be interested in participating/help in some other area:
Yes.

5a. Some general thoughts/suggestions:
This would be a nice workshop, there's always more to learn!

Misj'

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #12 on: 01 Jun 2015, 08:51 »
It always seems hard to stick to strict schedules in these things, and I am worried this one will run away as others have done in the past, I think it's very hard to rebuild momentum once you lose it.
One reason for loosing momentum (though certainly not the only reason) was that every time you get useful critique your schedule is set back :) - This is of course the entire goal of the workshop. That is also why I find it difficult to set up a duration (because learning and momentum don't easily go hand in hand).

When looking at the monster workshop you had these different 'phases' and at the end of each phase there was time to evaluate the different pieces. What was sort of missing - though - were a few extra days working on that phase trying to incorporate the critique people gave. I think it would be good to have a few days at the end of each topic to adapt the work and make it better.

Of course I'm not entirely sure which topics should be addressed, because that also depends on the style. As you know I very much rely on lines, and once the line-art if finished I will start colouring (similar to the approach used for comic-books). While I know a lot about the shades and values that I want to use, you will not (or rarely, or only partially) see that reflected in before the colouring stage. You on the other hand are much more into shades and shapes rather than lines. Then there are those who will want to create SpaceQuest-like pixel-art. The further the piece progresses, the further the way these pieces are created grow apart.

I think we should all gather references and make rough sketches (finding your style and gain knowledge about the subject), we all have to set up our composition and layout (through rough lines, thumbnails, shades, shapes, whatever). We can then - probably all - make a more detailed sketch. But this is all 'just' to have a solid preparation for our piece before we we will start to deviate from each other. I think that deviation is important, but it will make the workshop a bit harder to host.



ps. I have no problem slightly adapting my rendering style or approach for this workshop. My piece in the wreck-blitz was also less line-based than my usual work (and drawn much faster then when I sketch, ink, and colour). I love visiting that approach again and I really enjoyed it. I just want to make sure that we are not limiting people by focusing to high-res art (not that I think Loominous will want to limit anyone).
« Last Edit: 01 Jun 2015, 10:53 by Misj' »

Ykni

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #13 on: 01 Jun 2015, 11:03 »
I don't know the other workshops, but I think a way to keep the focus in a workshop is starting with a clear goal. That way if during the workshop some other interesting aspects of background making arise they can be addressed in a separate workshop. That would be a way to keep momentum and focus. This might also solve the issue of the different styles, some topics are relevant to background making regardless of style and some might go into specific techniques.

loominous

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #14 on: 01 Jun 2015, 11:07 »
Many have mentioned momentum, and tis a tricky one.

Here's an idea for a timeline, where each stage would have a milestone of sorts in the middle, where one is supposed to show the progress, to allow the remainder of the stage to be about exchanging feedback. You'd then present what you have at the start of the next stage, where we'd round up all the progress, and continue with the next step.



The topic would be presented a few days before the start, allowing people to be able to present the idea on the first day.

If someone's not able to present the progress at the specific days, then it's not a big deal, but everyone's encouraged to, and if you have progress to present sooner, then all the better.

Thoughts?
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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #15 on: 01 Jun 2015, 11:41 »
The problem I see with this is the different schedules of people. Some have lots of time during the week while others may be able to work on weekends only. Maybe set the day 1 of each week as fixed date for showing the result of the previous week but keeping the week-internal schedule more a recommendation than a requirement and also adding a feedback on days 2 and 3?

loominous

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey
« Reply #16 on: 01 Jun 2015, 12:58 »
The problem I see with this is the different schedules of people. Some have lots of time during the week while others may be able to work on weekends only. Maybe set the day 1 of each week as fixed date for showing the result of the previous week but keeping the week-internal schedule more a recommendation than a requirement and also adding a feedback on days 2 and 3?

The problem as I see with having the feedback on day 2-3 of the next stage is that there would be no way to incorporate the feedback, it would be more of a post analysis, since you're supposed to have moved on to the next stage. So we'd either we'd have to extend each stage with a day or two, or I think we'd end up with quite a mess.

As I see it, the presented timeline would be a sort of ideal schedule that people who have the time would follow, and would allow them to get the most out of the activity, with feedback being exchanged etc, while everyone else is free to tag along best their schedule allows, be it just posting an update at each stage, or at the end.

Edit: the weekday vs weekend availability is interesting, will update the survey
« Last Edit: 01 Jun 2015, 13:11 by loominous »
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Daniel Thomas

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey - updated v01
« Reply #17 on: 01 Jun 2015, 13:50 »
What's the difference between rough vs refined sketch? Would it be Thumbnail vs large res sketch? Composition vs colors?

I think 3 days for making a refined piece is too short (depending on the style someone wants to use), I wouldn't mind having week 4 for that too. But then nothing is stopping anyone from finishing it up after the deadline I suppose.
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loominous

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey - updated v01
« Reply #18 on: 01 Jun 2015, 15:38 »
What's the difference between rough vs refined sketch? Would it be Thumbnail vs large res sketch? Composition vs colors?

I dunno, just blurted out some stage descriptions, perhaps four stages would be better? I guess stage one would be thumbnailish sketches, stage two sort of end resolution "sketching", and then a stage or two for refinement/colors. Open for ideas.

Anyway, here's another timeline:

------------- timeline v02 --------------------

Stage one (rough sketch/reference studies):

Day1. Present idea
2. (work on rough sketch)
3. (...)
4. (...)
5. (...)
6. Present rough sketch and provide feedback
7. (Feedback n continued work on sketch)
8. (...)
9. (...)
10. (...)

Stage two (refined sketch):

1. Present rough sketch and start working on refined sketch
2. (work on refined sketch)
3. (...)
4. (...)
5. (...)
6. Present refined sketch and provide feedback
7. (Feedback n continued work on refined sketch)
8. (...)
9. (...)
10. (...)

Stage three (refinement):

1. Present refined sketch and start working on refined piece
2. (work on refined piece)
3. (...)
4. (...)
5. (...)
6. Present refined piece and provide feedback
7. (Feedback n continued work on refined piece)
8. (...)
9. (...)
10. (...)

Stage four (round up):

1. Present final pieces.

-----------------------------------------------

So this would provide 10 days per stage, where hopefully people could present stuff on day 6 of each stage, to allow for feedback exchanges.

Seem more reasonable?
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Daniel Thomas

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey - updated v01
« Reply #19 on: 01 Jun 2015, 23:46 »
I would say yes, I think it gives more room for people who can only participate a few days a week.
My main concern was just that refinement stage was too short previously, I would say rendering/painting, for me, is at least 75% of the time spent making a painting.
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loominous

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey - updated v01
« Reply #20 on: 07 Jul 2015, 14:44 »
Um, why was the Workshop thread locked?
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Re: Background Workshop - Survey - updated v01
« Reply #21 on: 07 Jul 2015, 15:19 »
I am still working on my background, even though progress is very slow. I hope this will be unlocked again :(

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Re: Background Workshop - Survey - updated v01
« Reply #22 on: 07 Jul 2015, 15:34 »
Probably because the initially announced end-date has passed, but I don't see any reason to not keep it open regardless.