Jibble

Author Topic: Background Workshop II - Concluded  (Read 32839 times)

loominous

  • Posts: 887
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #220 on: 10 Jul 2015, 08:07 »


This is one of the issues with working on each part separately, instead of working iteratively on the whole piece, since you're not relating the parts to the whole to the same extent.
Looking for a writer

Misj'

  • Posts: 759
  • To lazy to add an avatar...
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #221 on: 10 Jul 2015, 14:37 »
This is one of the issues with working on each part separately, instead of working iteratively on the whole piece, since you're not relating the parts to the whole to the same extent.
you make some excellent points; although I don't think it's caused by working on single elements but rather that I tend to overrender whenever I try a new style for the first time (it's a bad habit). I have the same when I do work on the entire piece rather than small elements.

I was planning to give the entire piece ant overall pass near the end, so this will certainly help.

EDIT:
for clarification, when I talk about rendering in this context, I talk specifically about shadows and highlights. Not details. Even with lineart I cannot always control myself and forget the less is more route. As a result, I run a very real risk of turning my piece into a murky mess.

Knowing when to stop is a very important part of the sport, and whenever I experiment with new styles I tend to loose sight of that aspect. This is something that always gets better with practice, but having people point it out will certainly help me get there faster.
« Last Edit: 10 Jul 2015, 17:43 by Misj' »

ThreeOhFour

  • Posts: 2,948
  • Wild colonial boy.
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    • ThreeOhFour worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
    •  
    • ThreeOhFour worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #222 on: 11 Jul 2015, 04:52 »
A great way to combat this is to zoom out regularly and see the big picture, the whole thumbnail again. When I detail I sometimes zoom out several times a minute, just to make sure new ideas aren't throwing the whole thing out. Even when colouring I sometimes use a layer set to "Saturation" blending mode filled with pure black, which strips all the colour out and allows me to check if my new colours aren't throwing the whole thumbnail off again. Obviously not a factor when detailing as you've chosen to do here, but figured it may be interesting advice for some.

Misj'

  • Posts: 759
  • To lazy to add an avatar...
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #223 on: 11 Jul 2015, 07:47 »
A great way to combat this is to zoom out regularly and see the big picture, the whole thumbnail again. When I detail I sometimes zoom out several times a minute, just to make sure new ideas aren't throwing the whole thing out.
Yes, zoom-in/zoom-out is very important. I too use it continuously; especially since I work at 3x the final resolution which means that I keep switching back and forth between 'working size' (3x final size), 'detail zoom' (6-9x final size), 'final size', 'overview zoom' (0.5x final size), and 'thumbnail zoom' (zoomed out even further).

I also regularly make a flattened clone of my image and resize it to different scales. It takes a little bit more time, but I prefer the scaling algorithm used for real resizing over the ones used for zooming (in the different applications I use).

Zooming together with flipping (which I use as well, but not hardy enough) are very important tools to keep an over- and fresh- view of the piece.

loominous

  • Posts: 887
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #224 on: 11 Jul 2015, 08:42 »
I tend to just keep looking at the navigator window in photoshop, since it provides a constant thumbnail view.



So my eyes just keep darting back n forth, kinda like the overview map in a game (like starcraft, where also, to make a rather contrived analogy, it's vital to keep the big picture in mind even when you're preoccupied with details, or you might often win the battle, but lose the war).
Looking for a writer

ThreeOhFour

  • Posts: 2,948
  • Wild colonial boy.
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    • ThreeOhFour worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
    •  
    • ThreeOhFour worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #225 on: 11 Jul 2015, 09:29 »
I tried using the navigator window but couldn't quite get used to it, so I went back to doing the slow way. I wish I could get used to it, I use preview windows constantly when doing animations, but somehow it just doesn't feel the same when painting scenes.

Misj'

  • Posts: 759
  • To lazy to add an avatar...
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #226 on: 11 Jul 2015, 10:03 »
I regularly hide all panels (it's a single button in Painter) when I'm don't have to switch between layers or brushes. I love the distraction-free image-only view. The navigation-panel is also turned off in that view, so it wouldn't be onscreen constantly. More important though: every panel costs screen real estate. The costs of the navigation panel - to me - is more than the reward (compared to a quick zoom). So it's one of the panels I always turn off.

Yes, I can buy a bigger monitor/cintiq, but I always preferred smaller ones. It's a personal taste (I'm the same with paper. I love drawing on A5 or A6 over A4) that's not for everyone; but I find it generally works better for my workflow and style.
« Last Edit: 11 Jul 2015, 11:51 by Misj' »

loominous

  • Posts: 887
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #227 on: 11 Jul 2015, 13:31 »
I regularly hide all panels (it's a single button in Painter) when I'm don't have to switch between layers or brushes. I love the distraction-free image-only view. The navigation-panel is also turned off in that view, so it wouldn't be onscreen constantly. More important though: every panel costs screen real estate. The costs of the navigation panel - to me - is more than the reward (compared to a quick zoom). So it's one of the panels I always turn off.

Yes, I can buy a bigger monitor/cintiq, but I always preferred smaller ones. It's a personal taste (I'm the same with paper. I love drawing on A5 or A6 over A4) that's not for everyone; but I find it generally works better for my workflow and style.

Not to question your preferences, but wouldn't having a larger monitor with the tools exposed, and have the image area cover only part of the screen be akin to having a large desk with a small paper on it?
Looking for a writer

Yitcomics

  • Posts: 124
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #228 on: 11 Jul 2015, 14:57 »
There's a lot of good tips here that a newbie like me need,so awesome.Can someone link me to Background Workshop 1
« Last Edit: 11 Jul 2015, 18:58 by Yitcomics »

Misj'

  • Posts: 759
  • To lazy to add an avatar...
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #229 on: 11 Jul 2015, 18:58 »
Not to question your preferences, but wouldn't having a larger monitor with the tools exposed, and have the image area cover only part of the screen be akin to having a large desk with a small paper on it?
You'd expect that, but - for me - it is not. I've worked with large monitors, because I thought so too, but it's really very different. I completely understand that someone who is used to a large monitor can't go back because a smaller screen is too constraint, and in general I will advice others a large (matte!) monitor. That is why people who see my small monitor and my smaller Cintiq are always surprised. But - in general - I find larger monitors with more panels open more of a distraction than an asset. Maybe it's just psychological.

As I said: I would advice others NOT to follow my example (except maybe with the Cintiq), because it's based on my personal preference and experiences. And these contradict common sense :-)
« Last Edit: 11 Jul 2015, 19:11 by Misj' »

loominous

  • Posts: 887
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #230 on: 11 Jul 2015, 19:48 »
I'm weird the opposite way, plain surfaces unnerve me, so I clutter things up intentionally.


Can someone link me to Background Workshop 1

First edition

For some reason the activity image urls aren't working anymore, will see if I can fix them.
Looking for a writer

Misj'

  • Posts: 759
  • To lazy to add an avatar...
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #231 on: 11 Jul 2015, 20:21 »
I'm weird the opposite way, plain surfaces unnerve me, so I clutter things
I have that too, I love 'ordered chaos' and I find it really motivating, inspiring, etc. But only if I make the chaos/clutter myself, and not if it's superimposed on me by the GUI. :)
« Last Edit: 11 Jul 2015, 20:24 by Misj' »

loominous

  • Posts: 887
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #232 on: 11 Jul 2015, 21:03 »
Would some moderator mind unlocking the old one for a bit so I can just fix the main intro image links (such as the script, etc) (for some reason I didn't host them on my standard server). Shame to have the whole intro missing.

First edition
Looking for a writer

Snarky

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 6,750
  • Private Insultant
    • I can help with proof reading
    • I can help with translating
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #233 on: 11 Jul 2015, 22:00 »
Sure, go ahead.

loominous

  • Posts: 887
Re: Background Workshop II - Stage III
« Reply #234 on: 12 Jul 2015, 09:05 »
Sure, go ahead.

Thanks, managed to salvage most of my links (the activity coincided with a crash at my isp).

Perhaps it could remain open for a day or so if someone else is able to fix their links (many of the participants used free hosting, so there's quite the amount of missing links).
Looking for a writer

loominous

  • Posts: 887
Re: Background Workshop II - Wrapping up(ish)
« Reply #235 on: 12 Jul 2015, 09:58 »
Misj, cat, how long do you guys think you're gonna need?

Thinking about ending it, so we can rest n start a new focused one in a while, which might be preferable to dragging this one on.
« Last Edit: 12 Jul 2015, 10:02 by loominous »
Looking for a writer

Misj'

  • Posts: 759
  • To lazy to add an avatar...
Re: Background Workshop II - Wrapping up(ish)
« Reply #236 on: 12 Jul 2015, 10:53 »
I have no problem ending this workshop. I'm not bored with my background but considering the time that I have to work on it, it won't be finished for a while...even if I continue.

I would advice a first (and last) post as an index/TOC for the tutorials so people can more easily find stuff to help them.

loominous

  • Posts: 887
Re: Background Workshop II - Wrapping up(ish)
« Reply #237 on: 12 Jul 2015, 12:22 »
Good idea, should probably add one for the first workshop as well.

Would you mind doing one for this workshop?
Looking for a writer

Misj'

  • Posts: 759
  • To lazy to add an avatar...
Re: Background Workshop II - Wrapping up(ish)
« Reply #238 on: 12 Jul 2015, 12:28 »
No problem.

I'll update my first first for that...which happens to be the 2nd post in this thread, so that works :)

cat

  • Mittens Baronet
  • Posts: 3,233
  • Rhonda Reindeer
    • cat worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
    •  
    • cat worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Background Workshop II - Wrapping up(ish)
« Reply #239 on: 12 Jul 2015, 18:04 »
Misj, cat, how long do you guys think you're gonna need?

Sadly, I won't have time to work on it next week. So feel free to wrap it up.
However, I'd love to see the final results of Misj and Cassiebsg. Maybe we can leave the thread unlocked for posting the finished pieces, even if it is late?