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Author Topic: Trumpmageddon  (Read 36625 times)

Khris

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #260 on: 24 Nov 2016, 22:04 »
I don't see how that addresses what's wrong with your original assertion, which btw. made me think of South Park.

Also, meet the new secretary of education! Wheeeee.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/betsy-devos-trumps-big-donor-education-secretary

InCreator

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #261 on: 25 Nov 2016, 10:04 »
I have always assumed that illegal immigrants mostly get jobs that citizens don't want. So your statement that they're "taking jobs that real citizens could do", while not factually wrong if taken at face value, sounded like you're implying they're taking those jobs away from citizen that absolutely would do them.
Was that your intended meaning or not?

It's probably more about de-valuating those jobs. Or rather, their pay.
So those aren't jobs "real" citizens do not want, but jobs they wouldn't do at offered pay rate. If immigrants will accept any payment, it's unclear if they're exercising or instead, obstructing the way free market works.
And if they're immigrants, from national viewpoint, it's the latter.

Andail

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #262 on: 13 Jun 2017, 18:18 »
So... without any preamble, what are your thoughts on this?

&t=57s

I think this is scary as shit. I've never seen anything like it in a political context in a modern, developed nation. This is the kind of stuff Idi Amin pulled.

Mandle

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #263 on: 13 Jun 2017, 18:48 »
Well...I could watch through the first 4 minutes until I started to feel the gorge rise in my throat and felt physically ill...

If this was The Rocky Horror Picture Show and everyone would suddenly stand up and start singing an ironic ballard on the existentialism of humanity, or if it were a scene from Dr. Stangelove, then I would applaud it...

But I think this may actually be an attempt at real world politics, and that scares the shit out of me as much as it did you...

This is not just post-fact, post-truth reality. This is something even Orwell would have thought too purple to put in 1984...

Jesus...just...fucking Jesus...
« Last Edit: 13 Jun 2017, 18:50 by Mandle »

Snarky

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #264 on: 13 Jun 2017, 18:58 »
I feel like it doesn't really tell me anything I didn't already know: that Donald Trump is a pathetically needy narcissist who doesn't even make an effort to disguise his emotional dysfunction, but on the contrary gleefully seizes every opportunity to let it play out on the largest possible stage, and that he's filled his administration with bootlickers and sycophants.

So yes, it's stomach-turning and Dear Leader-y, but that is just life now.

As a therapeutic measure, I've been playing bingo with my little prediction from right after the election:

Having become President and commander of the armed forces, Trump's ego swells to even more grandiose proportions. He is hooked on the high of adulation, and responds to any criticism or attack with uncontrolled fury. Having alienated much of the political establishment (particularly the foreign policy establishment), his administration is short on expertise and full of extremists, sycophants and charlatans. His undisciplined, impulsive and downright foolish words and actions, as well as the missteps of the other unqualified administration members, cause numerous international and economic crises, to which his instinct is to respond with aggression and escalation. Hopefully his easy manipulability (just flatter him) and more rational actors in other countries manage to stop these crises from sparking wider war.

Encouraged by Trump's lack of support for American alliances, Russia, China and other states step up confrontation with their neighboring countries. South Korea and Japan respond by rearming, which may include a nuclear weapons program. Other East Asian states make concessions, resigning themselves to increased Chinese influence. In the former communist states in Europe there's a decrease in faith in all the institutions and ideals of "the West": EU, NATO, liberal democracy. NATO continues to weaken and fracture (not just because of Trump, but also by the erosion of democracy in countries like Poland, Hungary and Turkey), and with no reassurance of common defense, individual countries start to arm up and pursue separate defense strategies. There's a worldwide rise in militarism and nationalism.

The US abandons many of its treaties, including the Iran treaty (so Iran resumes its nuclear weapons program), NAFTA (causing a loss in trade with Mexico that weakens the economy), the Paris climate change treaty (setting back any effective action to stop the ongoing global environmental disaster), and more. "Obamacare" is only partially abolished, but millions of Americans do lose their health care. Deep tax cuts lead to giant deficits, and to cuts in government programs and staffing. Anti-trade policies and attempts to "get tough" in trade negotiations with China and other countries lead to retributory policies that may escalate into a trade war. Together with the uncertainty caused by Trump's erratic behavior, this causes the economy to plunge into another recession.

On immigration, Trump's signature policies (the wall, deportation) are watered down or only carried out to a symbolic extent; most of his supporters don't notice, but some hardliners decry him as a traitor. In matters of social justice (police violence etc.), a Trump administration is unsympathetic and tin-eared, and this leads to increased social unrest. Killings both of cops and of black activists, by disturbed individuals who have been radicalized online, increase.

Blaming Muslims as a group for jihadist terrorism, Trump continues to nourish Islamophobia in America. Hate crimes against Muslims (and those who can be mistaken for Muslims) rise. Marginalized in this way, more Muslims are in fact radicalized into violence, while a larger group is drawn towards anti-Trump liberal politics. In the Muslim world, the narrative that the west is at war with Islam gains increased acceptance, delegitimizing American values and influences and strengthening extremists and authoritarian governments alike.

Coming into office as a sexual predator with a long list of scandals, a track record of fraud and illegality, not having isolated himself from his business interests, and with ties to organized crime, international fugitives and foreign oligarchs and dictators, Trump's administration quickly shows itself to be the most corrupt and scandal-ridden in memory, with Trump blatantly using the government to enrich himself. These scandals get considerable play in the media, but the GOP Congress is too craven and partisan to take any action to censure or rein him in, at least at first.

Already loathed and feared by half the country, Trump's shtick wears thin very quickly even for many who voted for him. His approval ratings fall to somewhere around the George W. Bush low point of 25%. Resentful and vindictive, he lashes out at his enemies and tries to use the powers of his office to get even with them. This leads to illegalities and abuses that dwarf Watergate.

... So, all around a fun few years ahead.

So far it's going pretty good (for my powers of prognostication, not for the US or the world, obviously). My predictions for how Trump would act have been pretty spot on (give or take which precise policy positions he's flip-flopped on, and I don't put much trust in his policies tomorrow being consistent with the ones today), while some of my expectations for how others would react to that were a little further off. So far. It's still early goings, of course. I didn't anticipate that the GOP would have quite so much trouble instituting policy, for one thing.

Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #265 on: 14 Jun 2017, 02:09 »
It's like a school play, but with old, white morons.

Mandle

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #266 on: 14 Jun 2017, 04:01 »
It's like a school play, but with old, white morons.

Hahahahahahaha! (laugh)

I don't know if you do political humour in your stand-up bits Ali, but that could be a classic bit in the right hands!

Gurok

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #267 on: 14 Jun 2017, 04:26 »
It's like a school play, but with old, white morons.

To paraphrase you, Ali, the key word in this sentence is 'white'. Practise what you preach. Don't bring race into this.

I thought it was a good cabinet meeting. Everyone was respectful, cheerful and optimistic about the future -- more than I can say about the general commentary in this thread. I particularly liked the CIA director's quip about the media.

Scavenger

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #268 on: 14 Jun 2017, 05:06 »
To paraphrase you, Ali, the key word in this sentence is 'white'. Practise what you preach. Don't bring race into this.

Sorry, race is already inextricably linked with politics since the creation of the white identity, which is a political construct. To ignore that is to ignore a tool used by unscrupulous politicians to excuse awful policy. Ali wasn't the one who brought race into the discussion. It was the people who prop up whiteness.

I was thinking about reviving this thread for a long time, but... so many ridiculous things happened. I couldn't pick one thing to show, and it was depressing to think that people would invariably excuse the atrocious behaviour of Trump and his far right sycophants.

Mandle

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #269 on: 14 Jun 2017, 08:15 »
EDIT: Actually, I have no valid point so never mind this post.
« Last Edit: 14 Jun 2017, 08:26 by Mandle »

Problem

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #270 on: 14 Jun 2017, 09:27 »
Very creepy, but that was to be expected.
What really surprises me though... was it really the first cabinet meeting? How long has he been president now, 5 months? (wtf)


Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #272 on: 14 Jun 2017, 10:00 »
Could everyone PLEASE not try to bring race into the room full of rich white blokes? Let's focus on the issues - that is not how grown ups talk. It's flipping insane.

Mandle

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #273 on: 14 Jun 2017, 10:15 »
Could everyone PLEASE not try to bring race into the room full of rich white blokes?

I knew it! This is Dr. Strangelove!

"You can't fight in here. This is the war room!"

Gurok

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #274 on: 14 Jun 2017, 12:47 »
Could everyone PLEASE not try to bring race into the room full of rich white blokes? Let's focus on the issues - that is not how grown ups talk. It's flipping insane.

There are a couple of different ways you can react when caught out. You can be gracious and move on, or you can double down on your position. I honestly thought you were better than that.

As for how grown ups talk, perhaps you're hanging around the wrong grown ups. It's not acceptable, at least in the company I keep, to point out the X morons (where X is a race) for any reason.

Mandle

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #275 on: 14 Jun 2017, 12:56 »
that is not how grown ups talk. It's flipping insane.

As for how grown ups talk, perhaps you're hanging around the wrong grown ups.

Gurok, I think Ali might have been referring to the way the people talk in the video.

LimpingFish

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #276 on: 14 Jun 2017, 22:49 »
Trump is the only person of colour in that room.


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Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #277 on: 15 Jun 2017, 01:57 »
As for how grown ups talk, perhaps you're hanging around the wrong grown ups. It's not acceptable, at least in the company I keep, to point out the X morons (where X is a race) for any reason.

I see no reason to be anything other than angry and flippant when addressing Trump. But our of respect for these hallowed forums, I would like to clarify:

I didn't mean that you were being childish, Gurok. I think you're wrong, but your tone is perfectly reasonable. I meant that Trump's cabinet were speaking in a disconcertingly facile, infantile manner.

The reason I'm not graciously backing down is that I don't believe I have been caught out. I didn't say 'white' by accident. I said it on purpose. They are white, and their whiteness is pretty of this story.

If Trump had filled his cabinet with black women, you can be sure I would have remarked on that. It is not racist to acknowledge race.

I'm the whitest man in England, so I'm not going to get into a debate about "reverse racism". They are white and they are morons. It follows that they are white morons. If they weren't white morons, they would not have been cast in this ludicrous pantomime.

Gurok

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #278 on: 15 Jun 2017, 03:59 »
As for how grown ups talk, perhaps you're hanging around the wrong grown ups. It's not acceptable, at least in the company I keep, to point out the X morons (where X is a race) for any reason.

I see no reason to be anything other than angry and flippant when addressing Trump. But our of respect for these hallowed forums, I would like to clarify:

I didn't mean that you were being childish, Gurok. I think you're wrong, but your tone is perfectly reasonable. I meant that Trump's cabinet were speaking in a disconcertingly facile, infantile manner.

I had assumed you were referring to the people in Trump's cabinet meeting. My comment was a general one about how grown ups talk.

The reason I'm not graciously backing down is that I don't believe I have been caught out. I didn't say 'white' by accident. I said it on purpose. They are white, and their whiteness is pretty of this story.

If Trump had filled his cabinet with black women, you can be sure I would have remarked on that. It is not racist to acknowledge race.

I'm the whitest man in England, so I'm not going to get into a debate about "reverse racism". They are white and they are morons. It follows that they are white morons. If they weren't white morons, they would not have been cast in this ludicrous pantomime.

When I said I was paraphrasing you, I meant it. You criticised Jack earlier in the thread:

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=54140.msg636547593#msg636547593

I thought it was a valid criticism, but I also thought you were more principled at that point.

Perhaps you could explain to me how you think that woman and corrupt are perfectly separable, but white and moron are not.
« Last Edit: 15 Jun 2017, 04:01 by Gurok »

Scavenger

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #279 on: 15 Jun 2017, 06:36 »
Perhaps you could explain to me how you think that woman and corrupt are perfectly separable, but white and moron are not.

OK, I can answer this one.

Whiteness grants you certain privileges in society. One of these, especially if you're white, is to be allowed to be mediocre, or even completely awful, and still get away with a whole lot more stupid decisions than any person of colour. People of colour are automatically put under more rigorous scrutiny about their competency, and lack of competency in an individual will be used to paint the entire race, in the public perception, as that, when really there is no significant difference between anyone, based on their skin colour. This same thing shields white people from the same criticism, because they are part of the in-group, and society is automatically more forgiving to the in-group.

This same reasoning holds for the male/female divide as well - Hillary Clinton is no more corrupt than many other given politicians, and is demonstrably less corrupt than Trump. But hold it - she is put under more scrutiny because she is a woman.

The fact that Trump even holds office now is in no small part because of his whiteness. He IS a moron. He appoints morons to his cabinet, who are woefully underqualified to do anything. The vast majority of his cabinet positions haven't even been chosen by him. He golfs (almost) every weekend while one of his major criticisms of Obama was the frequency of his golfing. He costs the taxpayer millions in security because of his traveling and keeping the first lady in Trump Tower, he leaks classified knowledge at his pleasure palace, he kept his business and is making policy just to profit from it, he attacks the press at every opportunity while cosying up with Brietbart....

... and yet he hasn't been impeached yet. Why is this? Why could this possibly be? How could people so eagerly let him stomp all over the constitution and the very fabric of American governance itself, while they let the GOP get away with blocking Obama at every turn, let them shut down the government in a hissy fit over socialised healthcare, and then attempt to make backroom deals to strip it away from people anyway?

Why could that possibly be??

In short, you can't just replace woman with man, or black with white, and say "look how sexist/racist YOU'RE being" because the political constructs of gender and race are not symmetrical and identical, they have meanings and weight beyond just being an identifying tag.